rugal nuker · Jan 12, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Is it worth it to spend attribute points in beast mastery(like 8 or someyhing) and sarifice 2 skill slots for it(comfort animal and charm animal)?is the dmg the pet has done worth it? i mean pve.

RotteN · Jan 12, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

in general, just bringing a pet ain't worth it, however, putting lots of points in BM and bringing pet skills can be pretty cool to play

Triple Evel · Jan 12, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

i dont think so .. its only ( maybe only ) useful to warriors so that it helps them tanking . while warriors dont need to bring many skills for tanking .. they can use these 2 skills , endure pain , defy pain , and some stances if needed ... >> thats my point of view ...

Vermilion Okeanos · Jan 12, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

I used to run BM at about 9-11 back in beta weekend as ele primary. I liked it alot (the pet was also stronger back then due to all the fire-and-forget buff for it)

I could use element on weaker enemires, and still do decent dmg on heavier armor guys like ranger with the pet.

EDIT: (did some calculation) BM11 dire would be about BM12 elder, BM9 dire would be about BM12 hearty.

Anything besides dire, I probably wouldn't try with less BM than 12.

observe the pet guide in community work section.

Dougal Kronik · Jan 12, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

I personally love having a pet! Acts like a toned down tank. If you add some of the Beast Mastery skills you can really pump up your pet. I like to use Poison Arrow (Elite) on my ranger's attack and Feral Lunge on my Stalker. Throws 2 conditions (poison and bleeding) on each enemy then focus on the priority target and start bringing them down.

Also, if enough players have pets, you can effectively double the party size limit. And they are effective with enough points in Beast Mastery. Ensure you have Comfort Animal if only 1 or 2 characters are taking pets as they can only be ressurected with Comfort Animal (your own pet) or Revive Animal (everyone elses pet but yours). If more than 2 characters are taking pets, have 2 of them take Revive Animal and try to see (before you leave town) if the Monks in the party can also heal your pets.

ShadowStorm · Jan 12, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Think of it this way: Beast Mastery for your pet is just like Marksmanship for you. The More Beast Mastery points you have, the more damage your pet does. 12 Beast Mastery = Pet doing 100% of it's potential damage. The only real difference is that the Pet's Weapon (claws/bite) doesn't have a minimum req.

Rajamic · Jan 12, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

And that the pet has HP, which when it hits 0, you are suddenly disarmed.

darkMishkin · Jan 12, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quoting the Ultimate Pet Guide, by Jenosavel and Epinephrine:

Quote:

...even with no skills in the pet at a 12 BM [Beast Mastery] it would be slightly better than having a permanent Conjure Phantasm running, draining away health constantly.

Read the whole thing here.

Pevil Lihatuh · Jan 12, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

as already said by some, it depends on your play.

I used to bring my pet along with 0 BM through most of the story. My bird did great, usually living longer than me

Now however, I tend to take him out depending on the area.

If I go soloing I take him; he's both my tank and my source of 'bleeding', allowing me to poison and interupt with my bow. In this case I'll try to have 7 or 8 bm (i permanently have a minor rune in my armour and so always have +1 bm) to lengthen the bleeding and improve my healing/resurection of him.

However somewhere with, say, lots of Ice Imps, I won't take him because the constant Maelstroms would kill him off very quickly. Or if I'm in a difficult mission (say the Titan Quests), more for my own benefit; if he dies and everyone is having a problem in the fight, thats me with no self-heal for 8 seconds.

"Revive Animal (everyone elses pet but yours)." - Actually Revive Animal last time I used it works on your own pet too. You just have to stand near the pet to revive it. I tend to only take this if I'm questing with my BF, as he never takes comfort animal, so that way I can revive his pet, and if there are two of us I'm not usually as bothered if my pet dies and takes my skills away. Plus the upside is of course that Revive doesn't blackout your skills. But Comfort is nice when you really rely on your pet, as it means you can turn the tides on the enemy. I do this if he dies while I ettin-farm; on the rare occassions he dies, I'll let the ettins get to me, then res my bird behind them with comfort so he can gain health/help damage whilst I take the attacks.

Red Sonya · Jan 12, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

As I've stated before on rangers with pets, it's automatically 2 skill slots you give up just to have a pet and be able to rez it and keep it alive. Then the common 2 skill slots for yourself for healing and rezzing other players, this leaves you 4 skill slots to actually play with. Having a pet isn't very viable when I play a ranger, for PVE the fun value is there for a little bit, but, if you make a R/N then you gain back one skill slot since they don't require a rez/heal skill, but, they don't last forever either, but, from what I've seen neither do the ranger pets. lol

Pevil Lihatuh · Jan 12, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

just been soloing some more ettins... i killed them even faster with a temporary BM build i was trying out than with my normal build. Takes some timing for interupts though.

Epinephrine · Jan 12, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Pets can be great, but you make sacrifices playing with one - I end up with 5 skills for the pet, 3 for me quite often, but playing alongside Jenosavel with our paired beastmasters and henchies I've never seem a mursaat tower go down so fast in my life - we stood out of the range of the tower, the pets waded right in and tore it to pieces - they get to use skills, because we are outside triggering it, at full energy still. The pets just tear through opponents with missile support. With Call of Protection they can essentially ignore Spectral Agaony for example, Jenosavel was running with Echo and Disrupting lunge and was taking out basically every skill an enemy could throw; bosses didn't stand a chance with an average of a pet interrupt hitting every 1.4 seconds. Pets are a potent force, but you have to use them right.

Remember that the bonus damage from an attack ignores armour; a heavily armoured Jade Armor will take little damage from a kindled arrow, but a ferocious strike will deliver a small amount of base damage with a big +27 or so armour ignoring portion; the pets cut through heavily armoured foes faster than anything but an IW mesmer; with a 15 BM (I like that, it allows for a build I use) they do 27 armour ignoring damage per ferocious strike, and can hit for 40 armour ignoring per brutal strike (though I prefer scavenger's strike and causing a condition; only 35 damage bonus but enemy health doesn't matter). You won't know till you use one, but the damage can be very impressive.

Cherno · Jan 12, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

I run a R/E and have a pet bear. He is level 18 and I think I only have 1 point in BM due to minor rune. He actually does very well and helps keep enemies at bay while I hit them from range. I only keep charm animal on and no comfort or revive. Bascially going full marks and expertise, I don't mind so much when the pet dies. If I see he is in trouble I will quickly cast a barbed trap to hold off enemies while I recover skills.

I was really looking forward to making a W/R with a pet to bascially have two tanks all the time. The only problem is that dang pet constantly gets in the way. When I switch targets and attack I usually just sit there because I can't walk past the pet and get blocked in. Was very disappointed and had to wind up taking charm off my bar.

Anyone have any suggestions for using a pet when you are a warrior primary?

Sol_Vie · Jan 12, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

I think I saw an BM/interrupt build a while back. It was really good. He used the pet to distract when his skills weren't recharged and it work too well.

In PvE though, pets are largely for show and for fun in my opinion.

Cherno · Jan 12, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Don't spiders have a more inherent tendency to perform interrupts than other pet species?

Wrath of m0o · Jan 12, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherno

The only problem is that dang pet constantly gets in the way. When I switch targets and attack I usually just sit there because I can't walk past the pet and get blocked in. Was very disappointed and had to wind up taking charm off my bar.

Anyone have any suggestions for using a pet when you are a warrior primary?

Heh..I feel your pain...you have to constantly hammer your space bar the entire time you are playing. Not only do you get stuck on your pet, your entire team gets a 8 car pile up that lets the enemy get off that last heal.

If someone could write a program that would keep hitting spacebar that would help.

A_Muppet · Jan 12, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

I think I saw an BM/interrupt build a while back. It was really good. He used the pet to distract when his skills weren't recharged and it work too well.

In PvE though, pets are largely for show and for fun in my opinion.

Rot. Me and my brother take out pets (spider for me and bear or wild boar, depending on his ranger) and they do just as well as the human warriors. Pets may not hurt much with their normal attacks but with 9 expertise and 3 pet attacks (one Ferocious strike) you can have an almost steady stream of pet attacks doing about +27 damage.

An of course, if it dies you just swear and comfort it.

Jenosavel · Jan 13, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherno

Don't spiders have a more inherent tendency to perform interrupts than other pet species?

Nope. Pet interrupts come via the skill Disrupting Lunge. You might be confusing the pet spider with the enemy spiders in the Fire Islands which are rangers and use the preparation Incendiary Arrows. A group of those buggers will lock you down for a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherno

I was really looking forward to making a W/R with a pet to bascially have two tanks all the time. The only problem is that dang pet constantly gets in the way. When I switch targets and attack I usually just sit there because I can't walk past the pet and get blocked in. Was very disappointed and had to wind up taking charm off my bar.

Anyone have any suggestions for using a pet when you are a warrior primary?

Heh..I feel your pain...you have to constantly hammer your space bar the entire time you are playing. Not only do you get stuck on your pet, your entire team gets a 8 car pile up that lets the enemy get off that last heal.

If someone could write a program that would keep hitting spacebar that would help.

I use a W/R beastmaster sometimes, so I know what you're talking about when it comes to the pet being in the way. However, unless you're in a corner, there's nothing to stop you from strafing for a moment and then hitting spacebar so that your pet is no longer in your way. It's an extra step and can be annoying, but its nowhere near the build-breaking thing you make it out to be.

I usually refrain from letting the game make me move anyway, since its pathing is so horrible. You're really better off running up to your enemies yourself and then hitting spacebar, especially if there are multiple pets or a minion necro in your party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Muppet

An of course, if it dies you just swear and comfort it.

I think a lot of people underestimate the efficiency of Comfort as a res. Its so fast that for all intents and purposes its uninterruptable. My pets always tend to have this rebound action going on. They die, hit the floor, and bounce right back up at well over half health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol_Vie

I think I saw an BM/interrupt build a while back. It was really good. He used the pet to distract when his skills weren't recharged and it work too well.

That's another thing people underestimate, the power of the pet interrupts. They're so used to the mindset behind player interrupts, which have long recharge times and thus require high accuracy, that they blow off an interrupt they can't time. Disrupting Lunge, however, has an extremely short recharge time at 5 seconds and thus doesn't need to be of great timing accuracy to be effective. The sheer amount of times you can use it ensures you're going to be interrupting skills, and each interrupt comes with a 20 second lockdown. It also ensures that no skill with a cast time of more than 5 seconds will ever complete; there's no being caught between skill recharges and helplessly watching a res go off as can happen with other interrupts.

That, of course, is the worst case scenario and only considering Disrupting Lunge by itself. When you start throwing other things into the mix -such as Echo, Call of Haste, or Serpent's Quickness- it can get crazy. I've already had it happen where my first 4 pet attacks took out 4 of an opponents skills in the Competition Arenas.

Quote:

In PvE though, pets are largely for show and for fun in my opinion.

I'm willing to bet you wouldn't say that if you saw at work a beastmaster or two who knew what they were doing.

And as to the original question of the thread: I, like Epinephrine, find that 15 BM is a place I like to be at. I'll take 16 sometimes, but more often than not I'll drop it to 15 to have a bit more power in another attribute. With a Sup. Beastmastery rune and appropriate minors, you can get 15 BM, 9 Expertise, and 12 in another attribute.

The Acolyte · Jan 13, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

My two cents is this. The beastmaster build is fun to play and does work. However, there are just too many other builds that are more effective IMHO. Purely my opinion of course. I've played with beastmasters that are better than me (and I'm far from being an just an average player). However, even they will say that Beastmasters aren't the top build to play. Most play the beastmaster for the challenge, as well as the fun of seeing your pet run in and tear up the mobs.

A quick caveat, if Anet ever adds pet commands like attack, defend, follow, etc I could see the Beastmaster becoming a powerful build.

The Acolyte

Cherno · Jan 13, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

The pet isn't really a problem for my W/R when approaching enemies. It is when I am in the middle of a mob and have just killed one enemy. I hit \ then space to get to the next, but the pet is in the way. Not only won't I move, but I won't actually attack. At times strafing isn't an option here because you are locked in and surrounded. In these instances, for me, that breaks the build.

I never really thought about using the pet interrupt instead of my bow interrupts. The only problem is that you would have to have the pet at the enemy you are trying to interrupt correct? Many times my pet is attacking something else, and I have moved on to a new target and need to interrupt immediately. I might give it a try and see how I like it. Thanks for the suggestion!

This is different for bosses and other creatures of high durability of course.

Jan 12, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54	#1
rugal nuker Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Sep 2005 Profession: E/Mo	Pets for rangers,is it worth it to spend some pts on beast mastery? Is it worth it to spend attribute points in beast mastery(like 8 or someyhing) and sarifice 2 skill slots for it(comfort animal and charm animal)?is the dmg the pet has done worth it? i mean pve. Last edited by rugal nuker; Jan 12, 2006 at 10:34 AM // 10:34..

Jan 12, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06	#4
Vermilion Okeanos Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2005	I used to run BM at about 9-11 back in beta weekend as ele primary. I liked it alot (the pet was also stronger back then due to all the fire-and-forget buff for it) I could use element on weaker enemires, and still do decent dmg on heavier armor guys like ranger with the pet. EDIT: (did some calculation) BM11 dire would be about BM12 elder, BM9 dire would be about BM12 hearty. Anything besides dire, I probably wouldn't try with less BM than 12. observe the pet guide in community work section. Last edited by Vermilion Okeanos; Jan 12, 2006 at 10:51 AM // 10:51..

Jan 12, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09	#5
Dougal Kronik Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Guild: Glengarry Fencibles Profession: R/	Depends on your style of play I personally love having a pet! Acts like a toned down tank. If you add some of the Beast Mastery skills you can really pump up your pet. I like to use Poison Arrow (Elite) on my ranger's attack and Feral Lunge on my Stalker. Throws 2 conditions (poison and bleeding) on each enemy then focus on the priority target and start bringing them down. Also, if enough players have pets, you can effectively double the party size limit. And they are effective with enough points in Beast Mastery. Ensure you have Comfort Animal if only 1 or 2 characters are taking pets as they can only be ressurected with Comfort Animal (your own pet) or Revive Animal (everyone elses pet but yours). If more than 2 characters are taking pets, have 2 of them take Revive Animal and try to see (before you leave town) if the Monks in the party can also heal your pets.

Jan 12, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01	#2
RotteN Forge Runner Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: W/	in general, just bringing a pet ain't worth it, however, putting lots of points in BM and bringing pet skills can be pretty cool to play

Jan 12, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02	#3
Triple Evel Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Order Of Noble Excellence {ONE} Profession: N/	i dont think so .. its only ( maybe only ) useful to warriors so that it helps them tanking . while warriors dont need to bring many skills for tanking .. they can use these 2 skills , endure pain , defy pain , and some stances if needed ... >> thats my point of view ...

Jan 12, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42	#6
ShadowStorm Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005 Location: Take me where I cannot stand. Guild: The Better Part of Valor Profession: W/N	Think of it this way: Beast Mastery for your pet is just like Marksmanship for you. The More Beast Mastery points you have, the more damage your pet does. 12 Beast Mastery = Pet doing 100% of it's potential damage. The only real difference is that the Pet's Weapon (claws/bite) doesn't have a minimum req.

Jan 12, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49	#7
Rajamic Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005 Location: IA Guild: Chronicles of Heroes [CoH] Profession: R/Me	And that the pet has HP, which when it hits 0, you are suddenly disarmed.

Jan 12, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46	#9
Pevil Lihatuh Jungle Guide Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Yorkshire, UK Profession: R/Me	as already said by some, it depends on your play. I used to bring my pet along with 0 BM through most of the story. My bird did great, usually living longer than me Now however, I tend to take him out depending on the area. If I go soloing I take him; he's both my tank and my source of 'bleeding', allowing me to poison and interupt with my bow. In this case I'll try to have 7 or 8 bm (i permanently have a minor rune in my armour and so always have +1 bm) to lengthen the bleeding and improve my healing/resurection of him. However somewhere with, say, lots of Ice Imps, I won't take him because the constant Maelstroms would kill him off very quickly. Or if I'm in a difficult mission (say the Titan Quests), more for my own benefit; if he dies and everyone is having a problem in the fight, thats me with no self-heal for 8 seconds. "Revive Animal (everyone elses pet but yours)." - Actually Revive Animal last time I used it works on your own pet too. You just have to stand near the pet to revive it. I tend to only take this if I'm questing with my BF, as he never takes comfort animal, so that way I can revive his pet, and if there are two of us I'm not usually as bothered if my pet dies and takes my skills away. Plus the upside is of course that Revive doesn't blackout your skills. But Comfort is nice when you really rely on your pet, as it means you can turn the tides on the enemy. I do this if he dies while I ettin-farm; on the rare occassions he dies, I'll let the ettins get to me, then res my bird behind them with comfort so he can gain health/help damage whilst I take the attacks.

Jan 12, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31	#10
Red Sonya Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005	As I've stated before on rangers with pets, it's automatically 2 skill slots you give up just to have a pet and be able to rez it and keep it alive. Then the common 2 skill slots for yourself for healing and rezzing other players, this leaves you 4 skill slots to actually play with. Having a pet isn't very viable when I play a ranger, for PVE the fun value is there for a little bit, but, if you make a R/N then you gain back one skill slot since they don't require a rez/heal skill, but, they don't last forever either, but, from what I've seen neither do the ranger pets. lol

Jan 12, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18	#11
Pevil Lihatuh Jungle Guide Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Yorkshire, UK Profession: R/Me	just been soloing some more ettins... i killed them even faster with a temporary BM build i was trying out than with my normal build. Takes some timing for interupts though.

Jan 12, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58	#12
Epinephrine Master of Beasts Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ottawa, Canada Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF]	Pets can be great, but you make sacrifices playing with one - I end up with 5 skills for the pet, 3 for me quite often, but playing alongside Jenosavel with our paired beastmasters and henchies I've never seem a mursaat tower go down so fast in my life - we stood out of the range of the tower, the pets waded right in and tore it to pieces - they get to use skills, because we are outside triggering it, at full energy still. The pets just tear through opponents with missile support. With Call of Protection they can essentially ignore Spectral Agaony for example, Jenosavel was running with Echo and Disrupting lunge and was taking out basically every skill an enemy could throw; bosses didn't stand a chance with an average of a pet interrupt hitting every 1.4 seconds. Pets are a potent force, but you have to use them right. Remember that the bonus damage from an attack ignores armour; a heavily armoured Jade Armor will take little damage from a kindled arrow, but a ferocious strike will deliver a small amount of base damage with a big +27 or so armour ignoring portion; the pets cut through heavily armoured foes faster than anything but an IW mesmer; with a 15 BM (I like that, it allows for a build I use) they do 27 armour ignoring damage per ferocious strike, and can hit for 40 armour ignoring per brutal strike (though I prefer scavenger's strike and causing a condition; only 35 damage bonus but enemy health doesn't matter). You won't know till you use one, but the damage can be very impressive.

Jan 12, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54	#13
Cherno Forge Runner Join Date: Jan 2006 Guild: Stars of Destiny Profession: E/	I run a R/E and have a pet bear. He is level 18 and I think I only have 1 point in BM due to minor rune. He actually does very well and helps keep enemies at bay while I hit them from range. I only keep charm animal on and no comfort or revive. Bascially going full marks and expertise, I don't mind so much when the pet dies. If I see he is in trouble I will quickly cast a barbed trap to hold off enemies while I recover skills. I was really looking forward to making a W/R with a pet to bascially have two tanks all the time. The only problem is that dang pet constantly gets in the way. When I switch targets and attack I usually just sit there because I can't walk past the pet and get blocked in. Was very disappointed and had to wind up taking charm off my bar. Anyone have any suggestions for using a pet when you are a warrior primary?

Jan 12, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00	#14
Sol_Vie Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boston, MA Guild: Blood Of Orr [BoO]	I think I saw an BM/interrupt build a while back. It was really good. He used the pet to distract when his skills weren't recharged and it work too well. In PvE though, pets are largely for show and for fun in my opinion.

Jan 12, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04	#15
Cherno Forge Runner Join Date: Jan 2006 Guild: Stars of Destiny Profession: E/	Don't spiders have a more inherent tendency to perform interrupts than other pet species?

Jan 13, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56	#19
The Acolyte Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ	My two cents is this. The beastmaster build is fun to play and does work. However, there are just too many other builds that are more effective IMHO. Purely my opinion of course. I've played with beastmasters that are better than me (and I'm far from being an just an average player). However, even they will say that Beastmasters aren't the top build to play. Most play the beastmaster for the challenge, as well as the fun of seeing your pet run in and tear up the mobs. A quick caveat, if Anet ever adds pet commands like attack, defend, follow, etc I could see the Beastmaster becoming a powerful build. The Acolyte

Jan 13, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25	#20
Cherno Forge Runner Join Date: Jan 2006 Guild: Stars of Destiny Profession: E/	The pet isn't really a problem for my W/R when approaching enemies. It is when I am in the middle of a mob and have just killed one enemy. I hit \ then space to get to the next, but the pet is in the way. Not only won't I move, but I won't actually attack. At times strafing isn't an option here because you are locked in and surrounded. In these instances, for me, that breaks the build. I never really thought about using the pet interrupt instead of my bow interrupts. The only problem is that you would have to have the pet at the enemy you are trying to interrupt correct? Many times my pet is attacking something else, and I have moved on to a new target and need to interrupt immediately. I might give it a try and see how I like it. Thanks for the suggestion! This is different for bosses and other creatures of high durability of course.